Jul 21, 2010, 01:04 AM // 01:04
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#1
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Trying to stay out of Ryuk's Death Note
Profession: N/R
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Update - Tuesday, July 20, 2010
Update - Tuesday, July 20, 2010
Guild Battle Mechanics
For more information on these changes, please see the Developer Updates page.
The Bodyguard no longer uses Oath of Protection.
The Guild Lord now uses Entourage: "For 15 seconds, the Guild Lord is shielded by his guards. He takes no more than 30 damage from each attack or skill and takes 30 less damage each second. This skill can only be used if there are more defending NPCs than attackers."
This skill cannot be interrupted, disabled, or removed.
Aggressiveness calculations now account for Entourage and effects that cause missed attacks. As always, stacking defensive effects on a Guild Lord is viewed as a sign that your opponent is being aggressive. In Guild Battles where neither Guild Lord is killed, the team displaying more aggressiveness wins.
PvP Skills
Wastrel's Demise (PvP): split for PvP; increased recharge to 15 seconds.
Codex Arena Skills
Armor of Sanctity: added to the restricted list for Codex Arena.
Symbols of Inspiration: added to the restricted list for Codex Arena.
Visions of Regret: added to the restricted list for Codex Arena.
Bug Fixes
Fixed a text bug that caused failed Assassin chain attacks to display "miss" instead of "fail."
Developer Update - July 2010 PvP Balances
Just as in June, we are continuing work on Dervish and GvG updates. In the meantime, we've made a handful of changes to address pressing PvP issues. None of the changes in this update affect PvE.
Guild Battle Mechanics
The Bodyguard no longer uses Oath of Protection.
The Guild Lord now uses Entourage: "For 15 seconds, the Guild Lord is shielded by his guards. He takes no more than 30 damage from each attack or skill and takes 30 less damage each second. This skill can only be used if there are more defending NPCs than attackers."
This skill cannot be interrupted, disabled, or removed.
Aggressiveness calculations now account for Entourage and effects that cause missed attacks. As always, stacking defensive effects on a Guild Lord is viewed as a sign that your opponent is being aggressive. In Guild Battles where neither Guild Lord is killed, the team displaying more aggressiveness wins.
Last month, we introduced some changes to GvG that were designed to reduce player motivation to bring teams specifically designed to stall out GvG matches. This month, we're refining those changes.
We've moved the damage-limiting effects from the Bodyguard (who still heals) to the Guild Lord himself. This ensures that the Guild Lord is the most important NPC, and it discourages players from using a gimmick to kill the Bodyguard and then playing defensively for the rest of the match. Because Entourage can only be used when there are more defensive NPCs around the Guild Lord than attacking players, teams facing a degenerate defensive build have the option of rushing the enemy Guild Lord, thus preventing the skill from being used.
The Guild Lord starts with five defensive NPCs around him: the Bodyguard, two Knights and two Archers. If all five of them are still alive, Entourage can be prevented by five attackers. Pets, spirits, and minions do not count. Only players and henchmen count as attackers and only while they are near enough to the Guild Lord for combat (in casting range or close to it). Each lord room NPC killed reduces the number of attackers required to prevent Entourage from being used.
In the event that a team does find a way to stall, we've made some additional adjustments to how we judge "aggressiveness," which determines the winner if neither Guild Lord is killed before 28 minutes have passed. As before, the fundamental measure we use is damage dealt to the Guild Lord, but we also factor in defensive buffs placed on the Guild Lord. A team that brings enough offense to force their opponents to apply defensive buffs to the Guild Lord is also viewed as aggressive. (In a sense, the damage they attempted to deal counts in their favor even if it is prevented; it is the attempt to deal damage that indicates aggressiveness.) Because Entourage works in synergy with other defensive buffs, a much greater aggressiveness bonus is given when an opponent combines defensive buffs with Entourage. We've also added a modest aggressiveness bonus for missed attacks against a Guild Lord because stacking blindness and hexes that cause misses is another way to stall a battle while preventing damage.
None of these adjustments represent a change in the philosophy behind giving the victory to the more aggressive team, but they should increase the accuracy in determining which team was more aggressive. Teams focusing on defeating their opponent directly should not be significantly affected.
PvP Skills
Wastrel's Demise (PvP): split for PvP; increased recharge to 15 seconds.
With all of the offensive boosts to Mesmers in the last major update, players have been experimenting with ways to take advantage of these changes in GvG. A few guilds have been running a 6 Mesmer spike team that's proven to be out of line. We like spike teams to have some level of viability in GvG, but they should be vulnerable to being countered through skillful play. While the very top teams have had success countering it, this build has been more effective than the spike builds we currently see as balanced (such as those that feature Elementalist/Paragons).
With a 1/4 second cast time, Wastrel's Demise is a key follow-up spike skill. We've increased its recharge to bring it in line with other key spike skills. We're looking to control the frequency of spikes in order to give the opposing team a window of opportunity to counter these tactics.
Mesmer spike teams have only been popularized in recent weeks. Typically, this means that further improvements will be discovered over time. We will keep an eye on them and make further adjustments if necessary.
Codex Arena Skills
Armor of Sanctity: added to the restricted list for Codex Arena.
Visions of Regret: added to the restricted list for Codex Arena.
Because of the rotating lists of available skills in Codex Arena, teams do not always have access to a level of offense or utility necessary to counter the most powerful defensive skills in Guild Wars. For skills that are found to be a problem specifically in Codex Arena, we simply remove them from the rotation. Armor of Sanctity and Visions of Regret were identified as having too strong a potential to bog down Codex Arena matches. They will no longer appear in the Codex.
Symbols of Inspiration: added to the restricted list for Codex Arena.
Symbols of Inspiration copies an Elite skill from an opponent. Due to special Codex Arena rules, however, if the stolen Elite does not match the caster's primary profession, the copied skill is disabled. To avoid confusion for players, we've also added this skill to the restricted list. It will no longer appear in the Codex.
Last edited by Tullzinski; Jul 21, 2010 at 01:13 AM // 01:13..
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Jul 21, 2010, 01:21 AM // 01:21
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#2
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Sep 2007
Guild: Untimely Demise [Err了] - SOHK
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Or instead of all this nonsense, put a real end match mechanic, OR put in an aggressiveness monitor.
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Jul 21, 2010, 01:23 AM // 01:23
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#3
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Inside the Oblivion Gate
Guild: The Imperial Guards of Istan[TIGE]
Profession: E/Me
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tullzinski
Update - Tuesday, July 20, 2010
Just as in June, we are continuing work on Dervish and GvG updates. In the meantime, we've made a handful of changes to address pressing PvP issues. None of the changes in this update affect PvE.
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meh. tbh i dont kno why they keep trying to bring gvg back to what it used to be. there tbh jsut isnt simpley the fan base to truely sustain gvg for awhile.
but i guess its some nice work on codex.... i guess.
and why do i feel pve is kind of being treated like the ugly kid u shove into a dark corner and make sure it never ever comes out?
sorry for being negative but.. oh well.
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Jul 21, 2010, 01:42 AM // 01:42
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#4
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Florida
Profession: W/A
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I lost a 22 win streak in RA for this? ZzZ
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Jul 21, 2010, 02:28 AM // 02:28
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#5
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Jan 2010
Guild: [Pink]
Profession: P/
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So... they are still working on the dervish...
I guess that means we can expect a para update in November?
I miss the days when we had skill updates every month. Now we have to contend with skill updates every other month... oh wait...
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Jul 21, 2010, 02:56 AM // 02:56
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#6
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: PA, USA
Guild: [COPY]
Profession: D/
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanier
So... they are still working on the dervish...
I guess that means we can expect a para update in November?
I miss the days when we had skill updates every month. Now we have to contend with skill updates every other month... oh wait...
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The Live team is just far too small to pump out the updates like they used to. I hope this is all not in vein: GW2 better be top-MMO for 5 years with all this neglect for their current product.
Although it seems Anet is between a rock and a hard place on this one, sacrificing one side of the story for the sake of the other (possibly better?) half. At least we got an update on their progress though.
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Jul 21, 2010, 03:40 AM // 03:40
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#7
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Dec 2005
Profession: R/
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tullzinski
Update - Tuesday, July 20, 2010
Armor of Sanctity: added to the restricted list for Codex Arena.
Visions of Regret: added to the restricted list for Codex Arena.
Because of the rotating lists of available skills in Codex Arena, teams do not always have access to a level of offense or utility necessary to counter the most powerful defensive skills in Guild Wars. For skills that are found to be a problem specifically in Codex Arena, we simply remove them from the rotation. Armor of Sanctity and Visions of Regret were identified as having too strong a potential to bog down Codex Arena matches. They will no longer appear in the Codex.
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If there is a skill that can single-handedly pose a major issue for other players if they don't have a specific counter to it, like the ability to strip it (mostly since there are 4 different kinds of effects which each require a different type of skill to strip it, and you can't have them all anyway), then I think that is a pretty serious issue with the power of the skill itself.
And there are a fare number of skills like that right now...
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Jul 21, 2010, 03:54 AM // 03:54
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#8
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Dec 2005
Guild: Super Fans Of Gaile [ban]
Profession: W/
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stretchs
Or instead of all this nonsense, put a real end match mechanic,
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They refuse to admit that as long as there is a "hard end" mechanic to GvG, teams will design builds and specifically play for this "hard end."
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Jul 21, 2010, 03:57 AM // 03:57
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#9
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Dec 2005
Profession: R/
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend Dr
They refuse to admit that as long as there is a "hard end" mechanic to GvG, teams will design builds and specifically play for this "hard end."
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These people deliberately drag out a match as long as possible, sucking out all of the fun and wasting everyone's time, even their own, for an abstract win in a video game. What makes you think they wouldn't do the same until the other team just resigns?
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Jul 21, 2010, 04:19 AM // 04:19
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#10
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: May 2008
Location: In a house
Guild: Proof Of A Nets Laziness[HB]
Profession: A/W
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobi Madera
and why do i feel pve is kind of being treated like the ugly kid u shove into a dark corner and make sure it never ever comes out?
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Because that's exactly what it is.
Believe or not, pve isn't the only format in this game. Please allow Anet to give some attention to those neglected formats. GvG hasn't been taken seriously by Anet since the removal of VoD (In August 2008 i.e. almost 2 years ago) and they are now finally giving it the attention it deserves.
Can't you people wait a few months for your pve update? The gvgers have been waiting 2 years for this.
ON TOPIC: Great job Anet! Keep it up.
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Jul 21, 2010, 04:39 AM // 04:39
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#11
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: New York
Profession: W/R
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This update needs a concise description. I got confused after the words "Guild Battle Mechanics".
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Jul 21, 2010, 04:55 AM // 04:55
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#12
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Inside the Oblivion Gate
Guild: The Imperial Guards of Istan[TIGE]
Profession: E/Me
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elnino
Because that's exactly what it is.
Believe or not, pve isn't the only format in this game. Please allow Anet to give some attention to those neglected formats. GvG hasn't been taken seriously by Anet since the removal of VoD (In August 2008 i.e. almost 2 years ago) and they are now finally giving it the attention it deserves.
Can't you people wait a few months for your pve update? The gvgers have been waiting 2 years for this.
ON TOPIC: Great job Anet! Keep it up.
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well u see everyone complaining that pvp is dead, so where does that put teh GW community? In PvE.
So im just saying putting attention now after 2 yrs of neglect to a system is like "Hey honey i finally got enough money to pay that mortage that we couldnt pay 10 yrs ago so we had to leave our house".
so all im saying is if the community is pve atm they should focus on pve not pvp.
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Jul 21, 2010, 04:59 AM // 04:59
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#13
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Forge Runner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanier
So... they are still working on the dervish...
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To my knowledge, considering many resources were going towards WiK previously, you can only guess what's next on the priority list. They DID say updates will take 2 months or so however, back on their journal a long time ago. So if only recently did the balancing start for Dervish, I would not hold my breath for another two months.
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Jul 21, 2010, 06:18 AM // 06:18
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#15
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: May 2008
Location: In a house
Guild: Proof Of A Nets Laziness[HB]
Profession: A/W
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobi Madera
well u see everyone complaining that pvp is dead, so where does that put teh GW community? In PvE.
So im just saying putting attention now after 2 yrs of neglect to a system is like "Hey honey i finally got enough money to pay that mortage that we couldnt pay 10 yrs ago so we had to leave our house".
so all im saying is if the community is pve atm they should focus on pve not pvp.
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Less people playing one format compared to another is not a good enough reason to give it less attention. It's a matter of which format needs it more urgently. GvG has had no real attention for 2 years, so the urgency has built up to a level that it is now Anet's main priority.
PvE on the other hand, has been given plenty of attention over the past 2 years and subsequently, the level of urgency is much smaller.
HB and TA are a special case and they have now become a classic example of Anet failing as both formats needed attention urgently, but Anet neglected them and deleted them both. I personally wouldn't want that to happen to GvG (what happened to HB and TA) and I assume that Anet shares a similar opinion.
Last edited by Elnino; Jul 21, 2010 at 07:15 AM // 07:15..
Reason: tense :(
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Jul 21, 2010, 06:26 AM // 06:26
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#16
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Mar 2010
Guild: Anna
Profession: A/
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Actually , there was big content with War in kryta in pve , so players should not complain.
However , i don't really see at all the point of this update. Who did decide to change those few skills for Codex arena seriously.... Noone plays it , except 10 people on quest day , so how can they know those skills are that annoying in that format( and even , those skills aren't the most annoying generally ).
Aswell about Wastrels demise , i'm not sure it was THE skill to nerf..
An other point is that many of the recent pvp updates concern only GvG , and since not many people do play it ( if you compare to HA or RA , which didn't get ANY single update about maps or objectives for years), it would be nice to get a little care on other formats , and not saying after 2 years : alright we decided to delete it after very hard tries.
So , to sum up my opinion , this update is useless and has no sense.
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Jul 21, 2010, 08:07 AM // 08:07
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#17
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Jul 2007
Guild: Relentless Aggressors [rA]
Profession: R/Mo
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from what I can tell, ANet is trying to give attention to GvG now (even though it's too late for a lot of people) to prevent the people who have continued to play despite all the shit in the past few years from quitting. one of the biggest goals they've mentioned for gw2 is making the organized PvP more observer-friendly, and all of that would be pointless if they aren't able to build up a competitive community for gw2. my guess is that they want to bring over as many people from gw1 as possible to play in this new game.
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Jul 21, 2010, 08:12 AM // 08:12
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#18
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Denmark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elnino
Because that's exactly what it is.
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No it's not but I agree with the rest of your post, PvP in all of it's forms needs some attention as well (and I say that as a pure PvE player).
Honestly for a game that hasn't have any kind of bought content for years I find that the amount of updates we get pretty fair. This game isn't dead but it's definitely aging, don't get me wrong I wouldn't mind an update every week but lets face it that is just not realistic.
Last edited by majoho; Jul 21, 2010 at 08:17 AM // 08:17..
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Jul 21, 2010, 08:43 AM // 08:43
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#19
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: May 2008
Location: In a house
Guild: Proof Of A Nets Laziness[HB]
Profession: A/W
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majoho
No it's not
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Heehee Yea I know. That's just an opinion coming from a pvper
My apologies if I offended anyone.
REGARDING WASTREL'S DEMISE: replace with overload zzz just as powerful zzz
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Jul 21, 2010, 08:57 AM // 08:57
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#20
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: England, UK
Guild: We Are The One And Only [rR]
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I really wish they'd tell us exactly how aggressiveness works each time they change the flaming thing.
Having to figure out whether it's better to let 1 war hit the lord, or bother putting guardian on the lord is gonna be annoying before the community figures out how this works.
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